Month: February 2016

I thought Zach was angry with Dylan,even to this day. That could explain the lack of communication between him and Sue

Well, I think many of Dylan’s friends were angry at him at some point or another and probably still are at certain times or another in their lives when they think about him, how they felt betrayed by him and what he’d done to others and himself.  The Stages of Grief is a process that no two people experience alike nor is it a linear process as one can cycle back in forth between anger, depression, acceptance, denial at various points in their life.  We can’t really say that Zack has been / is angry with Dylan anymore than we could say that Nate, Devon, and Robyn have been any less.  I’m sure they’ve all been there with the anger and sadness.  But the point here is that Sue reached out to Dylan’s friends so that she could gain some insights on her son in order to write this book. And it would appear that they were willing to help her because Sue alludes in her book that some of his friends stayed in touch with her, especially Nate.  So, this means that Dylan’s friends would have had to have been big enough adults to put their personal feelings aside in order to be honest and forthright with Sue about their individual experiences in their friendships with Dylan in the vested interest of the sort of enlightenment and help this book has the potential to bring to people in similar situations.

  Certainly, this means that Zack should have not only been able to divulge that he and Dylan spent many nights playing video games together but also chatted on the phone too. But she should already know that they were in touch in the evening though because I’m sure there were occasions when Dylan didn’t answer the phone when Zack called and Sue or Tom would pick up and then would let their son know her friend was calling.  But what Sue might not know is that after she’d long gone to sleep, late into the night, Zack and Dylan’s conversation went on well into the early morning hours  and that sometimes the two shared close personal stuff, their shared hate about the school culture and the fact that the two were both mutually depressed and probably, I would imagine, talked about suicidal thoughts. It’s more than likely too that Zack and Dylan fantasized about homicidal thoughts and the sprees they thought of going on at the school as an emotional catharsis to their pain and frustration.  Even Zack’s sister, Jocelyn Heckler, mentioned in the 11K that the two were into Nihilistic philosophies. After Columbine, both Nate and Zack were suspect to the authorities so much that they had their bedrooms searched and  Zack’s computer was taken and dissected in order to determine how involved he might’ve been. The two even underwent Lie Detector tests  Given that fact, I’m sure Zack might be reticent to being too forthcoming in regards to Sue’s book because he wouldn’t want to re-point any attention to himself as being seen as some sort of accomplice to Dylan’s downward spiral.  On the other hand, he was a very good friend of Dylan’s and he appeared to be depressed just like Dylan and the two were confidants talking intimately on the phone about their problems and enough to shed tears over their conversations.  For that very fact alone, this is VITAL information to be forthcoming with as a friend to poor Mrs. Klebold if no longer to Dylan.   If Zack talked with Sue, it is a major withholding of information that he did not come clean and say ‘yeah, Dylan and I used to talk a lot at night when you guys were off to bed so you wouldn’t necessarily know that we talked a whole lot about how we hated the school and how miserable we were. From things Dylan told me, I knew he must have been depressed but I didn’t mention this for years because I promised him I wouldn’t say anything.” So if this was the case (which I’m pretty sure that it was based on what Sarah Slater mentioned), Zack’s honest account of the close, personal details of his friendship with Dylan is extremely relevant information for Sue to know about in order to better understand her son and his actions while completing her book.. If Zack refrained from telling her any of this, petty anger aside, it’s pretty dishonest to his old (ex) best friend’s mother. He needs to consider how his friendship experiences with Dylan could potentially give Sue a better perspective, ease her mind even, and also help have a hand to aid this book’s audience in identifying signs of trouble in kids similar to himself and Dylan.

Is there any information I can read about sarah slater? 11k? Where would it be?

The only thing they maintained was their late-night phone call. It was a ritual. 10:30 at night. Hour, hour and a half. They just talked. Sometimes these conversations got emotional.“Dylan’d be on the phone with Zack or on the Internet,” says Sarah Slater, “and Zack would tell me they were crying about stuff.” 

A-hem. Oooooh, Sue….    I have the urge to call her about now. 😉 

Sarah Slater links:
[Excerpt from here]   [11K Account]   [He was in a lot of pain]

Do you know where it mentions people describing what kind of person they viewed dylan as in the 11k ?I remember reading somewhere but I can’t find the correct page bc theres so many (and there not catagorized ) ):

Hmm. The only thing that comes to mind off hand would be the JCSO Columbine Documents Organized by Theme compiled by Peter Langman.
Is this what you might be looking for?  It’s the closest thing I can think of where the ginormous 11K is condensed into snippets of what people thought of Dylan (and also Eric) organized by various themes.

New video interview with Sue in her own community via the Denver Post.  Poor woman is super nervous since the interviewer maintains a serious poker face and is damn near accusatory in tone .  As per usual, Sue truthfully continues to answer all questions asked in her usual earnest, classy manner.

One thing I wonder about having finally finished the book just the other day,  Sue states in this article/video as well as her book: 

“Dylan’s depression was not recognized by anyone who knew him or loved him,” she said. “Certainly not his family or his friends. The difficult challenge here is that behaviors that might be indicative of mental illness or brain disorder very often are very much like normal adolescent behaviors.”

I question this statement because why did Zack not seem to know about Dylan’s struggles and depression?  Dylan and Zack spoke regularly each night on the phone while playing video games together.  Sarah Slater mentioned the two had heart-to-hearts and would sometimes cry in their personal commiserating discussions.   It would seem that Zack must be reticent to come clean as far as volunteering input for Sue’s book. I would imagine that Zack knows a whole lot more than he will ever divulge since it’d be likely incriminating. From Sue’s own viewpoint, she saw Nate as the friend that was most often at their house. She has a lot of memories of the two so therefore, sees Nate as a very close friend of Dylan’s. Far closer than Eric or Zack even. Personal perception is a funny thing, ain’t it?  Also, Nate apparently helped refresh Sue’s memory about his time spent with Dylan for her book.   Yet, even though Zack was over Dylan’s house less, he still talked on the phone regularly with Dylan.  I tend to think Sue has no idea just how much this one particular friend knew a great deal about Dylan’s misery and depression.

   Denver post article and video

Did Dylan realized in time he would have found love? He never will now that he’s ended his life.

He did, yeah. By the first half of ‘99, Dylan had begun to make a transition of thought in his weariness. (And it’s evident in Sue’s book too just how weary he was starting to look that January.) He comes to the conclusion that Fate would decide when his true love would be known to him – that his perceived other half and he came here unknowing of each other born here on the earth and that it made sense, it was fine too, that they would both leave unknowing of each other in this life time. The chance seemed to feel so remotely slim to him that he’d have His Love while living in this existence. He resigned to the idea that love would be revealed for him once he left this place and floated away to the Halcyons. Dylan couldn’t stand being here much longer and waiting for love felt an unproductive torment. He didn’t see that if he stayed longer it might happen; he stopped believing in that. The abrupt shift in thinking, his change of plans was essentially: leave here and then Fate will find him true love.

Do you think Eric would have liked The Walking Dead? I men’s it’s al about survival and instincts.

Both Eric and Dylan would have looooooooooooved TWD, tbqh. Survival of the fittest post apocalyptic world, zombie kills (for Dyl) and guns, guns, guns – oh, my! They’d be big time, avid fans for sure. Also, too, I think the shows ability to examine the human moral compass as well as interpersonal relationships dynamics between people learning to get along and survive together would actually been a very good thing for them to observe and reflect on. The show has got a lot of action, blood, guts and gore which they would’ve been stoked over but it’s also has the human element that is thought provoking and self reflective. Instincts versus smarts. Leadership versus followers. Great concepts.

just wondering if you got rising scorpio, virgo sun and moon in aquarius for dylan’s natal chart too? but rather than 9:11 am, I put the birth time as 12 noon

I just added to that post that Sue mentioned in her book that he was born early morning which I mentioned could mean anything from after midnight in the a.m. hours to dawn or yes, 9:11 a.m!

I do feel that 9:11 a.m. suits him rather well with Virgo Sun, Libra Rising (plus 5 planets in Libra including Venus. The dude was chock full of air with that abundant mental energy and a mind that is constantly thinking non-stop) and an Aquarius Moon (air overload!) and Mars in Leo. Dylan was gravely lacking water in his chart hence his tendency to internally think away his feelings rather than identify, process and effectively express his emotions within himself as well as communicate them to others. He bottled things up A lot. So, to me the 9:11 am placement works better than noon.

Do you know what time dylan was born? :)

According to the internet sources, Dylan was born
9:11 a.m. on 9/11/81. Coincidentally interesting, huh?
Please note, this has not been an officially confirmed time of birth based of his birth certificate so this has not been verified as the legit. There’s a good chance that it’s not – although, from an astrological standpoint, his chart seems pretty spot-on using this time. So then again, it might be. No way to know until it’s been validated from official docs.

The only thing Sue offers in her book is that he was born “early morning” which is a bit nebulous since early morning could mean anywhere from after midnight in the middle of the ‘night’ a.m hours to dawn or nine in the morning.

could you reblog or send me a link to that music playlist the last anon was talking about?

The anon mentioned that they created their own playlist based off of the Dylan music posts scattered throughout this blog. You can start here as I have a few links to some of the previous music posts included on it. I may make a Spotify playlist to post here with a compilation of all of Dyl’s music that’s been showcased on E-C as well as carve out a section on the FAQ for his music tastes.

I just wanted to say thank you! I love your music posts you did, (ceiba, prana, etc) I downloaded all the songs and now have a whole new huge playlist! It’s neat to listen to music he used to listen to and damn does that boy have (had) a good taste in music! Thanks again for posting!

Yep, the boy had great personal musical tastes that were specifically his thing. You can tell in having made a playlist and while listening to all of the music as a whole, that Dylan was drawn to certain flavors of music which defined his personality. He was attracted to certain strong beats and almost mathematical-like repetitive rhythms – sometimes hypnotic and trance-y. It’s good to be able to listen to his individual preferences which, contrary to popular believe, was not solely his shared mutual appreciation of Eric’s preferences in German industrial flavors of KMFDM or Rammstein.

I enjoy pulling Dylan tunes and showcasing them because we can hear-experience a distinction in personality that is separate from his partner in crime. I’m glad you’ve enjoyed the musical posts too. Thanks for stopping by and letting me know that! 🙂 When I listen to ‘My Discovery’, a weekly playlist that serves up new and/or old-new tunes on Spotify based on musical genre preferences I’ve listened to most often, occasionally I’ll hear something that catches my ear and I immediately think “OMG, this is sooo Dyl; he’d like that one without a doubt!” 🙂

In your opinion, if Dylan had found a mutually loving relationship that was healthy, do you feel he would still have broached the subject of NBK with her or multual suicide? Or, would this turn of events helped to bring him out of that desire to die and/or kill?

Dylan’d be “NBK ..huh, what’s that ?  Oh, yeah..that.”  

*big grin, runs fingers through his hair*

“Hey, um, want to go see the Chemical Brothers at Red Rocks next weekend?”

the-sunshine-fox:

everlasting-contrast:

everlasting-contrast:

do-it-for-the-thrill-of-the-rush:

everlasting-contrast:

‘Upper right quadrant’ marks the spot

I wonder how he got this.

Dylan was 5’3 at age 16? And 6’4 at age 17? Pretty big growth spurt damn.

I believe that would be 6’3 in Dylan font. 😉

Also, thanks to kettlewhistle for mentioning the appendicitis referenced in Dylan’s Diversion File. Sue offers that Dylan went to the emergency care in Fall ‘97: “Stomach pain – thought to be an appendicitis but wasn’t.” I guess to expand on my vague question: Did this scar actually originate from a mere attempt at a diagnosis? Isn’t surgery a bit extreme? Wouldn’t they run tests first before operating to determine the condition? Sue does not mention surgery, just that it was ruled out as not an appendicitis. The autopsy report indicates the scar present is located on the “right upper quadrant” of the abdomen yet Appendicitis’ tend to originate in the lower quadrant of the abdomen and the surgery performed is within that localized region. So, hmm.. I wonder how much stomach issues Dylan had with the stressful conditions at school? This scar may have been a misdiagnosed symptom of anxiety ridden stomach pains. Interesting that he might’ve gone under the knife only for them to determine that he did not have a medical condition – that it might have turned out to be psychologically stress-induced stomach issues. It will be interesting to see if Sue mentions this in more detail in her memoir. Probably something like this that seemed insignificant to her at the time may have turned into tiny red flags in retrospect. There is a good possibility that Dylan may have had a lot of stomach ailments due to anxiety issues. Fall of ‘97 was a tough time for him according to his journals. October specifically, he got suspended for 5 days for hacking locker combinations with Zack and Eric. Jan 30th, he was caught stealing from the van with Eric followed by getting caught for scratching the locker next to his. Add in two traffic tickets and then on into March when the Diversion File was produced and his inception into the year-long program. Add to that, Dylan lost a signifcant amount of weight in ‘98. The result of that ‘upper right quandrant’ scar may have been from ongoing stomach issues after the shame and fallout from the January Incident.

“I’ve had thousands of dreams about Dylan where I’m talking to him and trying to get him to tell me how he feels. I dreamed that I was getting him ready for bed, and I lifted up his shirt, and he was covered with cuts. And he was in all this pain, and I didn’t see it; it was hidden.”

– Sue Klebold, Far From The Tree

Classic Reblogging this one since it coincides with Sue’s account in AMR, Chapter 13 “Pathway to Suicide”

She mentioned Dylan needing emergemcy surgery as a baby for a stomach problem. Maybe this is what the scar is from?!

Even  though babies usually heal pretty flawlessly that’s entirely possible including the location of it.  It’d be nice to know the approximate size of the scar. 

Why was Love so incredibly important for Dylan? What did it mean to him ? Would it have changed him?

Love meant validation, fulfillment,  completion and connection for him.  
To have love and to be loved meant Dylan would achieve a perfect equalizing balance that he felt he was incomplete and lacking within himself.
Love for Libra intensive Dylan meant a restored state of balance, harmony and perfect happiness

Validation:
 to feel unconditionally accepted and desired in return as much as he desired and yearned

Fulfillment:
 to feel satisfied, sufficient and not in a state of needing

Completion:
 to feel whole and perfectly adequate,that lonely piece of himself united with his other half together .

Connection:
 to feel integrated, happy and part of a communion between himself and his love within the totality of the universe

Finding someone to love Dylan wouldn’t have been the end all-be all catalyst to change him.  He sought love outside himself to heal the absence of love within himself.  The only way for love to have changed Dylan was for him to come to terms with beginning to loving himself first. It’s possible that if the right sort of mature, wise and open girlfriend came along, in addition to therapy too, he could’ve begun to take the baby steps to begin to not be so hard on himself, to love himself as he was.   But having a relationship with someone who could love him?  It’d only be a start..but not a guarantee cure-all of change for Dylan.