Month: February 2016

but in the morning ritual video, dylan is wearing a yellow shirt. you can see that it’s him when they’re walking through one of the aisles. but then once they’re in the parking lot, someone with a yellow shirt is also wearing shorts. i’m pretty sure it’s him.

Dude is waaaaaay too short (with short legs) to be Dylan.  Psst! The tall, gangly dude behind him is Dylan.  Don’t you guys know your dudes’ physiques?  😉   I’d say the short guy with the yellow shirt in front of Dyl is Eric because of those long arse shorts, blinding white socks and black shoes combo. lol  The look checks out as a Harris favorite aesthetic – however, that said – given that the shirt is not tucked in means it might not be a Rebby. Unless he was sloppy occasionally with the patented Shirt Tuck maneuver. Eh, but probably not…

Explained before here

What do you think of Peter Langman’s analysis/diagnoses on Eric?

‘The budding psychopath and rapist’ and taken at face value from his journal-manifesto.  If you watched the 20/20 interview, you see essentially how he diagnosis both. Far too simplistic that even a non expert with absolutely no psych credentials could jump to those conclusions based off his writings. Because it’s what Eric wanted people to believe. Langman doesn’t look deeply and carefully. He knee jerk diagnoses.  I noticed too, when he can’t figure a shooter out, he pigeonholes them by using schizotypal personality disorder as a default for that unclear cut diagnosis.

Have to disagree on Dylan not having magical thinking. It seems clear he would fit into the clinical term of the phrase. The beginning of the journal starts with the idea of ignorance is bliss, and that Dylan is ultra aware and above the “zombies”. This continues through out, including a lot of the abstract passages about existence,having a greater understanding of the everything, Dylan also talks a lot about the interconnectedness of everything, the everlasting contrast, all symbols in journal

In case it wasn’t too clear as to what I mentioned in the other post, I wasn’t suggesting that Dylan didn’t implement Magical Thinking, on the contrary, yes he did, very much so.  However, my distinction here in contrast to Langman is that Dylan was not mentally deteriorating to the point of losing it or becoming out-of-touch with reality while applying Magical Thinking. He was fully cognizant and able to make the distinction between actual reality and his fantasy world which he generated for himself in the midst of his depression and despair.

By the way, Magical Thinking is implemented by the entire world on a regular bases through various religious and spiritual belief systems, faith and practices.  Someone who believes in Jesus Christ as their Lord and personal savior along with the firm belief that they will ascend to Heaven if they abide by their religious tenets and ‘have faith’ in Jesus does not make them delusional, mentally unstable and unable to distinguish this reality. No one has ever looked at the abundant religious Magical Thinking applied liberally in Rachel Scott’s journal and said she was mentally deteriorating, fragmented and delusional. Religious faith is simply accepted as a ‘normal’ belief system that is motivational to people on a daily basis and gives them an inspirational sense of what they will have to look forward to upon their own demise to meet their maker. Just because Dylan had his own personally formed, unique ideas of what the afterlife would be like and that, once there, he would find completion in a True Love meant for him, does not mean he is mentally losing it and unable to distinguish reality from these fantasy concepts he’s constructed.  It is a romantic fantasy spun to make things seem more hopeful when he was too shy and obtaining a girlfriend seemed too daunting for him to manage.  He was still fully functional in the world, going to school, holding a job and associating with friends. He wrote his thoughts and feeling and fantasies in his journal. And who doesn’t have a dash of fantasy scenarios in their own journals?  He wrote out his feelings and philosophical concepts and belief systems and a part of him knew it was just a good fantasy he was telling himself but the other part of him needed to believe, to have faith in his fantasy tale ideation so that he could sustain himself though his depression and pain.

I do not agree with Langman post-mortem diagnosis of Schizotypal Personality Disorder. The characteristics of this disorder can be found here.
I touch upon why I eye roll the corresponding symptoms for this disorder in regards to Dylan in this post  To me, it’s unfortunate if Peter Langman is telling Sue that’s what her son had. But, oh well..

If anything, Dylan’s writing style, to me, seems more like that of a budding philosopher that has pondered about the meaning of life and how he intuits how everything all (should) work (from his PoV) which then becomes his free flow jotted down spiritual concepts and personal faith that bolsters himself up to make it through another day.  See this series of posts 

A Teenage Philosophy of Awareness and Existence: Analysis of the Columbine Shooters’

‘I’ll Never Know If I Could Have Prevented It,’ Says Mother Of Columbine Shooter

heartnegotiations:

As a culture, especially since the advent of modern media and the internet, we seem to have a deep need to vilify things we do not understand and disparage those we deem to be to be evil. But if you believe in either basic human goodness or simply the idea what humans are complicated beings, the “easy” way of viewing tragedy is not always the right way. That isn’t to say that Columbine wasn’t an act of evil. I remember how terrifying and tragic it was. But, I believe in an all encompassing, no conditions sort of love. The kind of love that changes people, changes lives. The kind of love that is available to both victim and perpetrator. It may not be a popular brand of love, but I believe it is an extraordinarily beautiful and life transforming kind of love. 

That doesn’t mean there aren’t consequences for peoples actions or that we can ever really make sense out of atrocities, but it does mean that empathy and love are worth fighting for. Showing compassion for the victim is easy. It is much more difficult to show love and forgiveness towards the people who did the damage. 

When you think of Dylan do you see a broken boy or a monster? When you look at his mother do you see a grieving woman or the person who created the monster. It’s complicated and difficult to see them as human beings very much like you, but if you’ve ever been on the other side of vilification, if you’ve ever felt misunderstood, if you’ve ever made mistakes for which you are hated, you might find your heart breaks for them all. 

I think this will be a very interesting and insightful book. I expect there to be backlash, but I look forward to reading it.

Another great audio interview with excellent questions. 🙂

‘I’ll Never Know If I Could Have Prevented It,’ Says Mother Of Columbine Shooter

dbk-sunshineboy:

Dylan As A Friend

“I was taking a walk not long before he died, and I’d asked him, ‘Come and pick me up if it rains.’ And he did. He was there for you, and he was the best listener I ever met.” – Far From the Tree

“We were T-boned while crossing an intersection, and Dylan stopped his car and ran up to my window and was just like, ‘Are you OK? Are you OK?’ and he was freaking out, and I just told him to go get my parents and tell them to come up here and get me.” – Columbine: A True Crime Story

“When [Devon’s] feelings were hurt or when she had conflicts with others, it was Dylan she turned to for support. ‘I would call Dylan on the phone or talk to him on the computer. It was the best therapy I could hope for.’” – A Mother’s Reckoning

“Mid-February, Dylan came downstairs dressed to go to work,
though he wasn’t scheduled. Eric’s dog Sparky was seriously ill, so
Dylan had picked up Eric’s shift at Blackjack. […] As he left the
house, I gave Dylan a hug and told him how proud I was that he was such a
responsible employee and a good friend.” – A Mother’s Reckoning

“He was there for you.” Loyal af. ❤️

Do you think Dylan truly believed in some kind of afterlife/a halcyon? Or was it just false hope, something to motivate him. Would he have killed himself, had he had known there would have been nothing after he died.

I just answered this question in my comment here. Haha. Dylan created his afterlife and wrote of it in a way that made it become a kind of ‘personal faith’ for himself. If he was told that there was just nothing after this life? I believe he’d still want to leave..to die.. Nothingness would seem a vast improvement to the so-called something-ness here. Only I think that he was such that he innately believed on a deep, intuitive, knowing ‘what is’ level that there was..would be..more to The Universe than just this. So, his belief that there would be many ‘existences’ for his soul beyond this crude three dimensional one in this vast universe was unshakeable within him. He was determined to make it to the 5th Dimension, actually.. It seems impossible for his internal compass to believe there could only be a void of nothingness in death.

My Conversations with Sue Klebold

thedragonrampant:

I promised myself I would no longer promote Peter Langman’s work as much, but this was too good an article to pass up because he speaks of the times he talked with Sue Klebold here. It’s a nice window into the other side of her conversations, which she does describe in her book as well.

We spoke a second time a few weeks later. We talked about my view of
Dylan and his psychological decline. She said that she was not hurt by
anything I had written, but the whole process of looking at him through
the lens of psychology was stirring up a lot of feelings. She talked
about her feelings of guilt for
not having recognized what he was going through or having been able to
“save” her son. I tried to reassure her that children with good parents
often face struggles that do not seem to make sense in the face of their
outward circumstances. For example, I know many people whose children
took their own lives—not because of how their parents treated them but
in spite of how much their parents loved them.

I remember reading years ago about a brief encounter Sue had with
someone who said in effect, “I just want you to know that I forgive
you.” Sue responded along the lines of, “I haven’t done anything for
which I need your forgiveness.” Though some people saw that as an attempt to evade responsibility, I was impressed by her moral clarity. She did not kill anyone. She
was not responsible for Columbine. Nonetheless, she has agonized daily
about what she did and didn’t do as a parent. When I reminded Sue of her
comment to the woman who “forgave” her, she became choked up. She said
she tries to hold onto that clarity but it is very difficult.

Langman gave Sue a very consoling message that she really needed to hear, however, that said, I’m still not down with his post- mortem diagnosis of Dylan or either boy for that matter.

Langman diagnoses Dylan with Schizotypal Personality Disorder and I don’t agree with part of the criteria of this disorder which is to apply ‘Magical Thinking". I veer off from him specifically on the part where he believes Dylan was delusional and losing touch with reality and this was showing up fragmented in his journal.

“His thinking was fragmented and jumbled, and he wrote about himself as not being human, as if he were some sort of god-like entity. The line between reality and fantasy was disintegrating. His deteriorating psychological state, combined with the influence of Eric Harris, led Dylan to engage in acts that seemed incomprehensible to people who knew him.”

I do not believe the line between fantasy and reality for Dylan was disintegrating into delusions thinking. Instead, these were coping mechanisms that he consciously generated for himself, sort of a fantasy faith belief system that he constructed to make himself feel better to get himself through each day in his struggles. As if a person was diagnosed with a terminal illness and they imagined how their own personal vision of ‘Heaven’ might be, Dylan applies “Magical Thinking” in the same manner by invented his Halcyon where a Love meant for him was fated to unite with him. It was like dangling a carrot before him, a place far, far better than here that would sustain him a little bit longer until it was time to finally exit from this unbearable life. I believe he was fully aware and cognizant fabricating these concepts in his journal and that he was not deteriorating nor losing touch with reality. He was fully functional each day while simultaneously weaving his own personal fairy tale for himself in his journal by night. These concepts he generated intentionally was his only ‘bright side’ to look forward to.

My Conversations with Sue Klebold

Does it make you mad sometimes that Dylan broke his family and ruined his parents lives? I love him, but seeing how broken Sue is makes me angry.

Does he make me angry, frustrated and lamenting for the utter devastation he’s left in his wake for his family and the people he was close with?  But of course it does, absolutely. The mixture of feelings are overwhelming, perplexing, contradictory and complicated most acutely so while reading his mother’s collection of memories. In fact, the book hasn’t simplified anything and instead, it’s made him and the path he chose to take more complex and enigmatic. At the same time I can appreciate what Sue mentions essentially – that Dylan was just too mono-focused on his own pain and suffering and apathetic disconnectedness to ever really dwell on the consequences of his actions for those he knew and cared for.  Perhaps he thought that he just wouldn’t be missed all that much for it to really matter?  And the crime he’d be committing would confirm he was someone that was never to be loved or missed or mourned for in the first place because he never felt he mattered much in this world.

While taping one of the Basement Tapes he half mutters to himself about his parents “they’ve been good to me, I don’t want to browse there”. At the same time, was he also alluding that he himself had not been good enough for them?  He was “sorry for all the crap this might cause” but did he think in time they’d move on and be better for it without him in their lives?  Dylan was just to checked out and compartmentalized near the end and while he may have thought about how sweet the revenge would be before leaving this shit hole, he was simply to blind to see and understand the flip side of his choice, the scope of infinite pain and suffering it would cause his parents whom he recognized were good to him, and for the rest of their lives.  Yes, of course it makes me angry and sad that Dylan was too blind to see or care but at the same time, I also understand that place he devolved to in order for embrace such an heinous, permanent act without barely glancing over his shoulder at loved ones he would be dropping a bomb on in his wake. One thing became more important than the other; death became more important than life. The relief in death was a priority above everything and everyone else.  

If only Dylan could have had the opportunity to be dropped into something like the classic movie “It’s a Wonderful Life” and then reinserted back into the timeline – so that he may have glimpsed the future pain and suffering he’d cause his mom and dad and his brother and circle of friends and the fall out in the world with the victims and their families. The short term revenge he was fixated on would suddenly have not seemed so sweet. His parents, that were so bereft themselves at one point, they too wanted to die if only to follow him.  Or that sixteen years on the result of his action has ended with his parents in divorce because of the unending, ongoing grief that eventually caused a rift between the two as they could not process the pain in a way that would nurture and heal one another.  Dylan had no means to witness and react to all of those things that would happen when he was blotted out of existence and immortalized as a horrific criminal. The future consequences for loved ones was only a flat concept in his mind in that it would probably be a momentary inconvenience and hurtful to them.  That it’d be temporary, they’d move on and forget him. and that the crime he committed would ensure that fact that he was ultimately not a good and right thing for this world of which he felt estranged. So, yes, it makes me angry that he was too ill impaired to see and yeah, you just want to shake him and show him the full 360 degree picture of what the future would bring in his absence.. And ugh, all of those tears and pain for his mother who has endlessly endured and weathered so much pain. She bared the brunt of it for him, for herself, yet loves him still and despite all of it, she will always love the real him no matter his actions, no matter what.

Hey! Just wondering if you could direct me to the video of Dylan walking (I think) down the aisle of a grocery store? If so, what’s the story behind it? I’ve seen it a few times but can’t find it and don’t hear much about it ever. Thanks buddy!

Certainly.  In the Morning Ritual video at around 2:18

The video date stamp is on Eric’s 18th birthday 4/9/99.  It is assumed that Dylan and Nate are visiting King Soopers grocery store to pick out a cake.. or something.. for Eric’s birthday but it could just as easily be the boys with Nate going on a morning donut run on Eric’s bday before heading off to school.  We really don’t know just what they’re doing in the store.

I read through the 10 questions list for Sue and number 8 was so dumb. Don’t most people give their kids money so they can do something special during/before Prom if they need it? That’s almost as dumb as the trench coat question.

Well, Idk, I wouldn’t say parents gifting their kids with large sums of money for prom is necessarily a standard affair for every family.  But in 1999, parents giving their son $200 to go to the prom was definitely a fairly substantial monetary incentive on their part to encourage their reticent, introverted son to go forth and live it up for night. The Klebold’s weren’t the sort of parents to throw money at their kids. They didn’t want to raise snobs but children that understood the value of earning their way in the world.  Now a days, $200 is drop in the bucket when you consider that parent’s knee jerk buy their kids iphones which are extremely expensive. I wouldn’t be surprised if kids today are given large sums of money by their parents for prom just because that’s what their peers are receiving from their own parents and so everyone feels like they have to keep up with everyone else.  

At any rate, the fact that Dylan’s parents gave him money seems almost like a bribe for him to go to prom rather than simply a gift and because they wanted him to go so badly they dangled cash before him.  So, I think a question like this one could certainly be relevant and telling as to what Sue and Tom’s train of thought was in deciding to give Dylan the money. They certainly knew he didn’t want to go to prom as he’d never gone to any other dance before at Columbine and this was going to be his last opportunity for a ‘big hurrah’ dance before graduation. Talking him into going just wasn’t good enough, and might they have tried to nudge him to go just by talking about it?  It would’ve been interesting to hear if Sue said as such.  But no, they needed to make it attractive enough for Dylan with sort of bribe money which to them, was given as a gift so that he could go forth and have fun and socialize at the last big school’s organized party.  So in this regard, I do think it’s a valid question..