Regarding cutting, didn’t Eric’s autopsy show that he very well may have self-harmed/cut as well? I thought I remember reading that he had cuts on his upper left arm at the time of death

The reality is that Dylan said he cut and Eric didn’t mention anything about it. On the autopsy reports, it indicates some varieties of abrasions (not specifically described as “cuts”)  were found on both boys but it does not indicate precisely how they got those marks. We can speculate how those marks originated but we don’t know conclusively if they originated specifically from cutting per say. It seems likely but that is speculation and not a fact.

 We know Dylan did engage in cutting because he indicates he’s doing so while in the midst of writing an journal entry. He did so on at least one occasion if not a few others from time to time.

Some people believe Eric self-harmed based on the findings in the autopsy report and other people don’t assume the marks are specifically from cutting.. There is no way to really verify it. You can read the autopsy files and decide for yourself based on the type of marks found present and noted by the coroner.

Did Patrick Ireland see Eric or Dylans dead bodies when he crawled towards the window?

No, Patrick was fading in and out of consciousness the entire time he slowly crawled to the window. He was completely unaware that he had been laying right nearby where Eric and Dylan’s dead bodies were.  Patrick was driven to get to the window by sheer instinct and will to survive believing that if he didn’t find any sort of way to escape asap, the shooters might show back up at any moment.  Patrick was really not aware of his immediate surrounding and the carnage that was all around him at all and I wouldn’t doubt it if he crawled over some body parts, bits of brain matter and blood-soaked carpet in order to get to that glass shattered window where he could probably vaguely make out light shining into the room like a beacon of freedom. 

Hi)) I have incredibly stupid and weird question but I literally can’t get it out of my head lately so I hope you can help me with clarifying this. So, boys killed themselves in front of the library window, right? And there was a sniper on the roof so he could see into the library windows. How come he never noticed two bodies on the floor? Or that there was no movement in the library and nothing was happening but police still waited. Why? I’m confused.

The boys didn’t kill themselves directly in front of the windows. If you look at the curved class library windows, focus on the far right curved corner window panel and imagine it about 25 feet back and to the right (or 8 feet from the window corner) into this tight, sequestered corner area which they selected as their boxed in little graveyard. The snipers on the roofs were apparently there quite a bit of the time observing movement in the library – and where still laying on the rooftops of houses, with their weapons at the ready, long after E and D had killed themselves and it was over. Sadly, they, like most of the SWAT team, were waiting for instructions from their authority to take any sort of action the entire time and never did anything proactively.. I would imagine part of the reason why the authorities wouldn’t signal the snipers to fire is that they knew their were many students in the library and the library glass windows could be deceiving as far as gauging a clear shot with all the reflection, and trying to determine who was clearly the right target. They tended to assume the students were being held hostage so they treated it like that sort of situation. Plus, they probably didn’t want to freak out students by firing in the windows and shattering glass and causing a panic where students might bolt. Jeffco didn’t fully know what they were up against, how many shooters there were. They didn’t wanted to risk any of the students getting accidentally shot when they were trying to take out the perpetrators. Still, you would think, they could have/should have done something…

The Effect of Dylan’s Paper about Charles Manson

ficktcolumbiner:

From the Columbine Report, document 3901-4000, page 7:

“Mandy Nichols said that she didn’t know ERIC HARRIS but she does know DYLAN KLEBOLD. She attended junior high school with him. She said she was never really friends with him but knew who he was. She said that in her CCB class first semester, a class that is communications for the college-bound, all students had to do research papers and that DYLAN KLEBOLD was in her class. The teacher was Mr. Webb and it was sixth hour. She thought that just before Christmas 1998, that they had to write research papers. She said she recalled DYLAN KLEBOLD writing his paper on Charles Manson and the crimes that Manson had committed. She said that the class had to read their papers and that KLEBOLD’s paper was a very “weird” paper.”

I would have loved to listen to Dylan read that paper out loud.

Especially when you consider that it’s a twelve page report! I can only imagine how he managed reading the part about “cleaning, cooking, making love to him (Manson), and various other tasks.” lol I think he was probably three shades of red by the time he made it to the end of his report —not to mention the way the class was probably looking at him like ‘omg how weird’. Your typical mainstream Littleton students probably weren’t too appreciative of True Crime. Oh, to have been a fly on the wall…

But I do think the concepts of simple ‘love, devotion and happiness’ of the Manson family resonated with Dylan very much..

Hi! So in Danny Rowe’s statement (JCSO 1115) he said he recognized E&D as seniors and that one of them “carved his arm with a razor”, was he talking about Dylan?

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Danny Rowe [1113-1120] never actually refers to the suspects by name only that he had seen them around in school.  Even when he’s describing what the shooters are wearing as he’s running away from them outside, he never identifies the suspects by name with assurance of who they are.  Given that, it doesn’t sound as though he is well acquainted with Eric and Dylan. Seeing the shooters at a distance while in a panic means he probably didn’t even fully identify them as perception is quite messed up during an adrenaline rush.  We could easily draw the conclusion that he meant Dylan for the simple fact that Dylan had engaged in cutting, based on one reference in his writings.  But again, given that Danny doesn’t seem to single out Eric and Dylan by name in his entire witness account possibly means that he may have meant any senior in the TCM that made it known that they cut by showing their arm to others.   It’s one sentence and it’s a bit vague. We don’t know if he, himself, personally saw the dude with the cuts or whether he heard around from a friend that the suspect razor cut their arm. We don’t even know specifically if the type of cuts were actually ‘razor cuts’ only that this is Danny’s perception. It’s a bit difficult to be truly certain that it was Dylan..or even Eric conclusively.  The only thing we can do is make assumptions that it was Dylan only because Eric never mentioned he cut.  I feel as though Dylan was very secretive about his cutting explorations and did not proudly display his cuts like a badge of honor for all to see. This is my personal opinion. In conclusion, it is difficult to say for certain based on a very vague eyewitness account.

Mother of a Columbine High assailant tells of missed warning signs of mental health problems | The Gazette

Sue spoke today, Tuesday July 11, 2017 at the Symposium of Hope, a half-day event at the Cedar Rapids Marriott meant to raise awareness about suicide and prevention.

Hopefully, photos and some videos of her presentation will surface in the coming days.. And as always, we hold a prayer circle for any new Dylan photos, and new anecdotes, she may decide to share with the audience as part of her speech. 

Full article under the cut 

Jul 11, 2017 at 8:53 pm |

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CEDAR RAPIDS — Sue Klebold, mother of Dylan Klebold, one of the assailants in the 1999 Columbine High School shooting, wants Eastern Iowans to know what she didn’t about suicidal warning signs, intervention and misperceptions of mental health crises.

Klebold spoke Tuesday at the Symposium of Hope, a half-day event at the Cedar Rapids Marriott meant to raise awareness about suicide and prevention put on by Foundation 2, Tanager Place and Young Parents Network.

Klebold said she knew her son as a gentle, quiet and brilliant person. Even when he was a young teen, there were few signs that something troubled him, she said.

In high school, at Columbine High in Littleton, Colo., Dylan became friends with Eric Harris. During their junior year, the two were arrested after breaking into and stealing from a vehicle. About the same time, Klebold said her son got in trouble at school for the first time after scratching some lockers.

The two were put into a diversion program, similar to counseling.

“I remember asking, ‘Does this mean something? Is something wrong with him that I’m not aware of?’” Klebold recalled. “The diversion counselor turned to Dylan and said, ‘What do you think? Do you think you need to go to counseling?’ And I bet everybody in here will know the answer to that question. He said, ‘No, I’m fine.’”

Klebold said the boys graduated from the diversion program and her family went to visit some of the four colleges that had accepted Dylan. He went to a prom. All seemed well with him.

But on the morning of April 20, 1999, she said she remembers hearing her son rush down the stairs and out the door far earlier than usual. She asked her husband to talk to Dylan later that day because it seemed that something was bothering him.

“I had not a clue that this was a life-and-death situation,” she said.

Klebold later learned her son, 17, and Eric Harris, 18, shot and killed 12 students and a teacher in the school, and injured 21 others, before killing themselves.

Klebold said she wishes she knew of her son’s suicidal ideology. She said if she had known, she believes treatment could have prevented it.

“We want to believe that we can see what is going on in someone’s head, we want to believe we can see evil,” she said. “When Dylan was feeling suicidal, Eric was feeling homicidal. Somehow these two people were connected.”

There were other warning signs Klebold said she learned only later, and there were multiple possible points of intervention, Klebold said. Dylan had seen a physician a few months earlier, and had written a school paper in which he described a murder.

“More than anything I regret my own failures as a parent. When I (read Dylan’s journal), I could see my son was suffering. By the time he was 15 years old, he was talking about being alone, that he wished that he could get a gun and kill himself. He wrote that he was cutting himself. I never saw any cuts on him. I wish I had said to him, ‘Tell me something about yourself that no one else understands that causes you pain.’”

Klebold said she wanted the audience to understand those who are suffering can be adept at putting up a facade.

Not only is it important to understand suicide warning signs, she said, but it’s important to ask bluntly if someone has suicidal thoughts.

“Preventing suicide is a community issue,” Klebold said. “I had the assumption that love was enough, that my children could come to me. There are many steps between hearing that someone is suicidal and taking action. I want people to know not to freak out and shut down the conversation.”

Most of all, Klebold said in an interview, she hopes Tuesday’s audience knows there is hope and others are learning that suicidal ideology is a medical condition.

“When those thoughts are persistent and taking up more and more of one’s time, they’re making a plan, it’s a progression.” she said. “They’re reaching a Stage 4 life-and-death situation.”

Okpara Rice, chief executive of Tanager Place, said he hopes the symposium encourages people to learn about suicide prevention.

“I hope they understand that this isn’t someone else’s issue,” he said.

Resources:

— National Suicide Prevention Hotline, available 24 hours a day: 1-800-273-8255

— ASIST classes: Applied Suicide Intervention Skills Training is a 16-hour training that focuses on recognizing the signs of suicide, intervening and helping the person create a safety plan. More information is available at Foundation 2: (319) 362-1170 or www.foundation2.org

Mother of a Columbine High assailant tells of missed warning signs of mental health problems | The Gazette

Hi E-C maybe a bit of a stretch but do you think that’s the infamous Koala? (The picture on the cover of a mothers reckoning)

 I do think it’s highly likely, yes. 🙂   As for his stuffed Koala being infamous’, nahh…

Just think, Tom goes up to where they used to hike together ever year on Dylan’s birthday and brings his son’s childhood favorite Koala, a Dr. Pepper and he used to smoke the cigars that Dylan gave him on his birthday (April 15)..until those were gone. :-/

I miss you, miss Everlasting ❤️ I truly hope all is well with you, i haven’t seen your posts on my dash for a while and i miss them :) Just wanted to say Hi ❤️❤️❤️

Miss you too, Miss Rebby’s Mommy. ❤️ You’re too sweet.. Thank you for stopping by and saying as such. 😘 I get a kick out of your blog with those close-up animated gifs you do to perfection, your words of wisdom and that cheeky sense of humor..you seriously cheer me up. ☺️

Do you think Dylan was drunk when he went to the shooting?

Dylan was 100% himself and fully cognizant during the massacre. He didn’t want to be drunk or half checked out; He wanted to be fully present while going out in style in a blazing trail of glory. After all, destroying the school and everyone that had the misfortune to be there that day was just the ‘have fun!’ prelude appetizer of his death day party. A few students heard words to the effect being shouted:

“Today is the day the world is going to end; today is the day I die.”

My sense is this had to be Dylan. No question for me.

Forensically speaking, Dylan’s autopsy found no drugs or alcohol present in his body….

kinda surprised that dylan wasnt a complete stoner

That was certainly my very first impression and probably many others like yourself just based on his somewhat disheveled look complete with the long, scraggly hair..  But judging on appearances alone can be deceiving.  In the last few week of school, Dylan got framed for being in possession of marijuana by unknown classmates and the school authorities took him out of class and searched his locker and his car for weed and came up completely empty handed.  The school was willing to judge him guilty without a shred of evidence and just assume he had drugs. This must have been mortifying and added to his built up contempt and ire towards the entire school. as a cancer that needed to be taken out for treating him like crap on the bottom of their shoes.   In actuality, while Dylan did smoke pot occasionally, he wasn’t a full-on stoner or pot head.  I think this is in part due to the fact that he was stuck in the Diversion program for the year (his Junior year) and so he had to be on his best behavior for the occasional drug testing they periodically did. Alcohol is easier to conceal and get out of your system when it comes to testing.  But I also think he was partially discouraged from acquiring a habit out of it based off of his brother, Byron, and the tarnished reputation he’d acquired in their household.  Dylan already felt extremely unmotivated with school work and that college career that he knew his parents anticipated of him  and not his older brother.  Even though Dylan acted out in various ways he still seemed to shoulder the mindset that he must uphold that ‘perfect son’ self-reliance reputation that was expected of him. So, smoking pot on a regular basis would only make him even more laid back and unambitious than he already was feeling in his depression and if he took it up along with his alcohol habit (which he thought he could control), he’d be heading on that path of the disappointing son that Byron turned out to be.  On his diversion questionnaire, it’s quite possible that from Dylan’s point of view, he was the one that told the intake counselor that his brother ‘got kicked out of the house for drug use’. (Sue mentioned in her book ‘she comes up short’ how the Diversion program skewed the report and made it seem like Byron got “kicked out” when she said he chose to leave on his own). Dylan then went on to say ‘he loves his brother but cannot condone his behavior.’  So, it would appear, at least from how Dylan was spinning it with the Diversion counselor, that he dislikes the idea of the drug lifestyle that his brother chose for himself in his leaving their home. 

At any rate, in a way, it’s too bad that Dylan didn’t become a stoner (and Eric too for that matter) because it’s possible it might have mellowed out the festering anger and put a damper on just enough of that motivation he was able to muster up toward the planning, preparation and execution of massacre. It also may have calmed his social anxiety on a daily basis to the point where he may have become less reserved and inhibited socially leading to the possibility of more intimate dating experiences with girls.  But that is just speculation of how it might’ve played out had he been an actual stoner rather than just appearing to kind of looking like one.