Do you think Dylan was only attracted to white girls or do you think race didn’t matter to him?

I do think he was attracted to white girls, yes. In Littleton, white is predominant and it’s mainly what he’d grown up around and was used to. That’s not to say that he couldn’t/wouldn’t fall for a girl outside his race – if she put in the effort ..as any girl would have to with him.   Ultimately though, it’s not about race. Personality and chemistry precede that. 

Why do you think did they go for the bomb instead of just targeting bullies? Why did they stop killing with so much ammo if they planned to kill so many? Do you think people would treat them differently if they had just targeted the bullies? Do you think the people who tormented them felt guilty for Columbine, at least at the start?

They were impressed with the McVeigh’s Oklahoma City bombing but they were underwhelmed with those garden variety ‘lone-wolf, angsty kid just snapped and shot up his school’ type thing that had been peppering the news in recent years. Though, they were very much aware of those happenings..  Oh, sure, they liked the idea of getting back at their school.  But in a nutshell, Eric seemed to think they were pussy emo shooters that didn’t have a cool enough, well thought out plan or purpose. Not grand scale enough for Mr. Harris.  Additionally though, bombs tend to be more impersonal than shooting people one-on-one, up close and personal, looking them straight in their eyes and potentially risking conversation. That’s when it becomes..difficult and messy because they’re not just targets anymore but people.   I believe they expected the bombs in the cafeteria to do most of the job for them causing damage and casualties and then they’d pick off the rest from a distance. And from a distance is  the key here because I don’t think they initially ever intended to be doing a lot of work murdering people at close range as they did in the library.  It became more arduous than they thought and equally devastating on themselves than they let on with their woohoo! theatrics and playing off of one another for their audience.  The bombs failed to blow, all of their prey congregating in The Commons had fled either outside or up the stairs and down the halls and outside.  So by the time they were in the building, there were not that many people to shoot and those they did were fleeing. Still, their weapons were shit and no one was shot in a deadly way except Dave Sanders.   So, once they met up together and walked into the library, they couldn’t exactly walk back out when a bunch of people were cowering there.  This was their opportunity to start their massacre which the bombs had denied them. They had to do the job themselves and at close range. This was their revised NBK.   It was fun for them to lord over the cowering students and figuratively beat their chests, to dick  around with the psychological terror and saying things that everyone would over hear and pee their pants over.. but it was taxing when the shooting began repetitiously. . Eric thought it might be fun to shoot someone close range under the table and then BOOM, kick back hit his nose and broke it. From there, he was wobbly and still having to look like wee! this is fun.  After a while they were literally sick and tired of it. When they left the library, the adrenal rush was gone, and they were drained. The bombs were duds, even a lot of their pipe bombs and some incendiaries failed to explode properly. Here was their chances to ‘kill as many people as possible!’ and they were literally doing just that, all the work that the bombs were supposed to be doing for them.  Suddenly, there they were like those average amateur school shooters they viewed contemptuously, taking pot shots at people under tables. There they were dealing with repeat hits, of killing up close and in a very personal way, with screams and blood spattering and such. It was messy and taxing and so by the time they left the library, they were wandering around like zombies peering into blockaded classroom doors, making eye contact with people and not doing much of anything. Idly shooting at lockers and closet doors and trophy cases but no longer attempting to make a concerted effort to kill people.  They were running low on ammo but they still had enough to continue hunting down people if they wanted to but instead, they had lost the sport of killing once they left the library.  It is even said that while they were in the cafeteria attempting to get the bombs to explode they were literally walking around people under tables 5 feet away from them yet they refrained from killing them. Getting the bombs to blow was Eric’s obsession at that point even if that blew the two up while attempting.

Even though the two didn’t actually target only their bullies, I think most people still tend to think the boys had an intent to take revenge on any of the jocks that were on their Shit List that they saw fleeing the school once the bombs went off.
For some reason, they just decided to not target the gym, the obvious place you’d expect would be ‘ground zero’ for jocks to be congregating. This is  possibly because during A lunch, many that they disliked were at lunch and not in gym or, maybe they thought the jocks would’ve jumped them and so there was a fear about centering their attack around their bullies in a location where they could be ganged up on.   Some say that where the bombs were placed in the cafeteria was around the jock’s tables of choice so that when the bombs blew, they’d be the first to be hit by the deadly blast.  Not so sure if that is a fact or not though. They initially must have considered while planning NBK ‘let’s go after those that harassed us’ but then they realistically reasoned that it’d be pretty hard to only seek out just those people that caused you grief.  How could they possibly know where each of their targets were and in what classes in this massive school  of over 2k during their intended plan of attack?   In any case, even though they didn’t directly target only bullies, it seems to be construed by many people that they were eradicating the entire school because it represented the elitist, exclusive culture, the entitlement and favoritism, the affluent snobs, the stuck up chicks that wouldn’t go out with Eric and last but not least, the bullying jocks.  So, if they destroyed the symbol that was the school that’d be effectively taking out everything they’d come to despise that had ostracized and hurt them.. In the grade scheme of things, the justification was that the corrupt school and it’s system itself was The Bully in its’ totality.  You wouldn’t just destroy parts of the cancerous cells but instead destroy the entire cancer, sort of metaphor.  As it is,Eric and Dylan garner sympathy from disenfranchised people by default simply because they get an innate sense of what the boys were attempting to do only instead of targeting ‘just bullies’ they thought bigger and took their teenage level of revenge up a notch and on a grander scale than anything before, and in history. Whether society likes to hear or accept it or not, they did in fact, make an impression on the world.

Do I think they’d receive even more sympathy had they only go after just their bullies?  That’s a possibility because they would look as though they weren’t just shooting randomly and blindly without an apparent plan in place (as they ended up doing!). The two lost sight of their plan by shooting random students in the library who they didn’t even know much less had been directly victimized or bullied by.  I’d say, in that respect, shooting whoever and whatever as if  they were in a free-for-all shooting gallery made them look as if they were out to kill for the sport of it instead of out to specifically,methodically hunt down bullies and take their power back from those that took it from them.  Still, it’s odd to say, but as much as Eric and Dylan are despised by so many in this world, there are still those that sympathize with them even though their plan had become figuratively going after the bullies rather than just targeting actual personal bullies. This is a very fascinating aspect about why these two boys resonate for a lot of people on a deep level.  In fighting back they did the absolute unthinkable. But it’s the kind of brazen ‘fuck you!’ that was not only intended for their toxic school, and for the world to experience in horror, but it is also very much a ‘we’re fucked!’ on themselves..and permanently. Still, people that have been bullied get their message regardless of whether they’d failed big time and appear to be nothing more than ‘cowardly assholes’ to the majority. Ultimately, It’s a no win situation with an extremely minute sense of empowerment and revenge for themselves before they then had to blow their brains out. 

Some of Eric and Dylan’s bullies know full well what they did and regret it, yes.   One that went public about it is, Jason,  who became addicted to drugs after Columbine happened out of guilt and feeling partially responsible for having a hand in what happened.  He came forward on the Intervention program. I’m sure there are plenty of others too and they know who they are and what they did too.  

Do you think zack still considered Dylan a friend even after he read Dylan’s journal about him?

I think Zack will always think of Dylan as his friend. His good friend that somehow slipped through his fingers and got lost in making a horribly stupid, irreversible mistake. When Dylan’s ‘journal’ was made available to the public, Zack may have felt kind of strange about violating his friend’s private thoughts. However, at the same time, he must’ve been intensely curious just to grasp straws at some sort of possible insight by climbing inside of his friend’s head through his chicken scratch writings. While skimming through certain passages that included dates that Dylan supplied, it must’ve been like jogging Zack’s memory to certain goings-on at the time and in relation to his friend’s deeply private perspective. Dylan’s viewpoint may have been vastly different in comparison his own perspective at the particular period of time. He would’ve realized he was completely unaware that Dylan felt so acutely put out and deeply hurt by Zack and Devon becoming closer. Over the years, Zack has had a lot of time to reflect and wrestle with the whole horrible thing. He’s had time to feel shocked, betrayed, angry and beyond sad about Dylan. Missing who he was not what the media spun him as “the Columbine Killer” that “Monster” he was portrayed and immortalized as. Yet, at the same time, he’d understand where Dylan was coming from because he’d been there himself too in his darkest moments in high school by himself and in the company of Dylan talking about their darkest revenge fantasies. He’d been just as angry and depressed as Dylan and he felt that siren’s lure too of making the same kind of stupid, destructive mistake that in the end, his friend seriously chose to make. But over the years, the bottomline is that Zack remembers who Dylan was as a real person. He knew Dylan exactly who he was as an individual and he genuinely liked that dude and will always fondly remember their experiences together and all the good and bad times they shared. He’ll never be able to fully make sense of what he did, even though he innately understands his motivations behind it. He’ll never be able to reconcile the good friend he knew with what he given himself over to in the last hour of his life. His friend that would put himself and Devon and all their other friends in mortal danger, in harms way. He just couldn’t possibly know what he was thinking to do that. He’d reason that Dylan just wasn’t in his right mind and was so depressed and in pain that nothing mattered but death and dying and he just must have not had a clue how it would utterly destroy all those he loved beyond those he didn’t give two fucks about. But at the same time, he fondly remembers that stupid geeky phone invention they’d made together over the summer or the sound of Dylan’s infectious laugh as they made up idiotic jokes together and the deeply painful things the two confided in one another about on the phone each night and all Zack can come with is that Dylan was his friend, like a brother, and he always will remain just that.

What do you mean when you say people love the idea of Eric, rather than Eric himself?

eatprayfuckkillkillkill:

thedragonrampant:

That’s not quite what I said. What I said was “I know that a lot of people love (the idea of) Eric” – a sentence that can be pulled apart to read either as “I know that a lot of people love Eric” or as “I know that a lot of people love the idea of Eric”. This means that I recognise that some people seem to love him for just the way he was, but it also means that I want to draw attention to the fact that sometimes we can love the idea of someone more than we would actually love the reality of this person. We may come to find, upon experiencing an actual relationship with this person, that we may not be cut out to handle the trials that come with that or that we have idealised a part of them that comes from wanting to see the best in someone rather than the worst. It’s happened to me before in a past relationship of mine and I’m sure that I’m not alone in that.

I think that the community may sometimes have a working image of Eric that would not necessarily match who he was in reality. I think that people may, for example, imagine him as more dominant than he would factually have been. I also know that some other people here disagree heavily with me on the subject of his sensitivity, so their image of him differs from mine on that point and leads to a completely different explanation of his thoughts/actions. We obviously don’t know which image of him is the correct one (though I think one can hazard an educated guess) and so I think we always need to be made aware of the fact that we may imagine something in him that was not reality. Some end up loving their idea of him more than the reality of him, whichever reality that may be.

“I think that people may, for example, imagine him as more dominant than he would factually have been.”

Interesting you use this example–I have noticed that too, also about how Dylan is imagined, and it bothers me too.

I can get how Eric would be seen as much more hardcore and controlling than he was in reality, but with Dylan it’s…wtf no. Dude was CANONICALLY submissive, romantically and socially. And yet there’s all this stuff about him being so damn socially “smooth” and take-charge and outgoing and the narrative of Boy Eventually Unleashes Masculine Ego By Being Dominant to Girl…over and over.

Because dominant men are supposed to be sexy. Because I’m supposed to be into dominant men. Because either one of them not being that is supposed to be an insult to them. Because these kids think being a shy boy, or a romantically-passive boy, or even a boy who DOES want/need to take a dominant role (but doesn’t have the expected physicality for it, and is kinda bad at establishing and sustaining that role) is a shameful thing. I guess.

The reason I’m so hung up on those two, and Dylan in particular, is because they frickin WEREN’T. Doesn’t anyone remember what Brooks said about Dylan and Eric? Has no one encountered such boys in real life, huge immature nerds with badassery complexes, awkward social skills and obvious emotional problems?

I don’t have any issue with the cutesy edits, the funny videos or the idolization of the two. I’m not bothered by the cosplay. I prefer it to the somber, autopsy-like, shame-riddled atmosphere of most other Columbine forums. The emphasis on the physical beauty of the two school shooters has really started to leave a bad taste in my mouth, and it washed out with time before–but it’s lingering longer and longer and grossing me out.

Other shooters who aren’t “hot” get ignored, or condemned with the same severity as most people condemn Eric and Dylan. I shudder to think of what they’d say about Eric if he was fat, or Dylan if he had an unkempt neck-beard.

This happens with real people in the fandom too. Not naming names, but certain fanboys have gotten barraged by lewd anon messages, past the point where it’s cute or funny and becomes…very uncomfortable, to experience and to watch. This only happens with the ones who fit a mold of attractiveness that is expected, who stay quiet and unproblematic enough that everyone can project their fantasies on them. When they speak up too much and have a mind of their own, they get dragged. Their name is mud. Then they either leave, or die. Then another comes along, and the cycle continues.

The fanboys who aren’t “cute” get ignored. The fanboys who are trans, or gay, or too weird in the wrong ways, they get ignored too.

The constant inkling that Eric and Dylan could have risen from the dead and secretly taken part in their own fandom on tumblr, and been either shunned or disliked by most columbiners, bothers me. I’m here for Eric and Dylan now, and their mission–NOT for the other fans. I once wanted to believe that we were all one big TCM 2.0 clan and family, but we’re not. We’re a bunch of fractious, covetous maniacs who have to play nice with each other because we happen to covet the same things. Most of the time. For a while.

Agreed^^ This reality check is worth the reblog.


https://everlasting-contrast.tumblr.com/post/144794850170/audio_player_iframe/everlasting-contrast/tumblr_o7m7x24B0i1s2bhl3?audio_file=https%3A%2F%2Fa.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_o7m7x24B0i1s2bhl3o1_r1.mp3

Oh what the hell, why not?  A little loop of Dyl’s beats ditty  “ No ‘Kay Yeah”

Guaranteed to go through your head at some point during the day. 😉  

Someone needs to put a music track to this. 

@rebdomine-rebismine you up for it?

I can’t even begin to imagine what it was like for Byron to explain to his wife and kids about Dylan. Having to cope with the fact that their uncle was a murderer, and how they’ll be criticized for it is just depressing. They’ll never be able to truly know the man their uncle was first hand, all they’d have to know and remember him are grainy photos and stories.

Byron’s kids are still little so I’m sure at this point the only thing they’ve told the two is “oh look at that photo of daddy goofing around with Uncle Dylan. Where is he? Oh, honey, he died a long time ago and went to heaven, he was very sad and ill.” Of course, when they get to be older, say age ten into their tweens , Bryon and Julie will begin to reveal more little bits and pieces over a period of time. Once they’re in middle school and up, they will already be learning about history and like any middle school kid, they’ll know about Columbine and other school shootings and of course, smart enough to piece it altogether in connection with their dad’s last name and that Uncle Dylan was a perpetrator in the massacre. I’m sure it won’t be easy but if they go slow, broaching the subject over the years, the kids will have had the family closet skeleton’s broken to them gentle. Who knows, with Grandma Sue working in suicide prevention, it might inspire Aiden and Everly to feel personally vested in knowing and understanding about the tragedy of their Uncle. They may even be inspired to want to get involved in mental health too. So, as sad and difficult as it will be breaking the news to their kids, there is always a potential bright side in their knowledge about Uncle Dyl.

Dylan was famous, even among the voracious adolescents he hung out with, for his appetite. He was adventurous, too. When his friends came out with us for dinner, they’d usually stick with the fried standards, while Dylan experimented with calamari or barbecued duck.

Sue Klebold, A Mother’s Reckoning
(via trueponderer)

adventuresome, risk taking tastes 👍🏻❤️

How would have Dylan reacted is Eric found a serious girlfriend? Would there have been a fallout? Would they have focused less on their plan together. Why did girlfriends play such a role in ruining their friendships?

Mm..I think Dylan would’ve been devastated had it sunk in that Eric actually found a serious girlfriend and not just another ‘going out’ type date. I think he’d feel very much abandoned and beside himself and it’d be like “well shit, first Zack and now Eric now there’s no one to be the agony to my misery” type thing going on in his head. If Eric was dating seriously, he would be a bit less focused on the totality and finality of NBK so it would likely begin to fall a part at the seams. Three is a crowd and I do feel that the dynamic would’ve changed greatly had either of them fallen hard for a girl and started dating seriously. Sometimes distraction is all that is needed in life to change the course of destiny.

Was the girl in the Eric in columbine video with the sucker pregnant? Because after she leaves Eric and the others make comments about her being a teen mom etc etc

That was Tiffany Tipher. Eric had dated her briefly in Freshman year and she broke off with him. I don’t think many girls that attended Columbine would risk getting knocked up; it wasn’t the norm in that town so I’d say no on being pregnant. I don’t recall the entire gist of how they arrived at commenting “hey mother want another” after she started walking away. Then again they were making lewd jokes about her sucking on her lollipop so..yeah. Boys behaving badly making lose and easy chick jokes. Plus, Rebby was probably still feeling juuust a little bit jilted over her.

I wonder how Eric & Dylan would actually feel if a girl had called them “daddy.” It wasn’t even a term of endearment it the 90s as it was in say the 50s.

They’d actual feel weird about being called that, tbh. Not sure what you really expected in pondering this? I mean, the sexualized term of endearment of this decade wasn’t even a thing then. The 50’s use of it was more like “dude” or “old dude” a very different thing and hardly an endearment.